Breaking Stigmas, Building Careers | Kevin Hyer

00:00 Introduction and Kevin’s Background
01:26 Hyer Calling Foundation’s Mission and Services
04:05 Challenges and Stigma in Recovery 
07:00 Supporting Recovery in the Workplace
10:23 Importance of Second Chances and Success Stories
24:01 How to Support and Connect with Hyer Calling Foundation

Whitney (00:00)
Kevin, thank you so much for joining me today. I have been a big fan of the Hyer Calling Foundation for about a year now, I think, was a year ago when we met. And there’s just so many wonderful things that you’re doing, and I’m excited for more people to learn about the services you offer, the mission, how they can support. But let’s start with, can you introduce yourself, share your story and how you’re in the recovery world?

Kevin (00:29)
Sure. Sure, absolutely. So my name is Kevin Hyer I’m a management side labor and employment attorney and I had practiced law for 10 years in the DC and Philadelphia area when I became addicted to Crystal Meth at 39 And when I got addicted, I had never even used drugs before. It was a momentary mistake I made. And when I got into recovery, I was so moved by the experience that I formed the Hyer Calling Foundation. And Hyer is my last name, H-Y-E-R. And I see this as a higher calling

to go out there and break stereotypes of addiction to reduce its stigma. And to use my background as a labor attorney to help folks get back to work. Because obviously, in life, you kind of need employment. And especially for those of us in recovery, employment, aside from paying the bills, also gives you purpose and meaning. And you have that gratitude that you’ve got a second chance. And it helps us make pretty great employees. So that’s my background in 30 seconds. And I run the Hyer Calling Foundation as CEO.

Whitney (01:26)
Yeah, and the Hyer Calling Foundation’s been around for about two years now?

Kevin (01:31)
two and a half years, yeah We were formed in April of 2021.

Whitney (01:33)
Two and a half.

So you’re doing this work, you’re helping people get that second chance. How exactly do you go about doing that?

Kevin (01:45)
Sure. So the Hyer Calling Foundation’s overall mission is to reduce the stigma of substance use disorder in the workplace. And we kind of have two arms to our foundation. One arm offers services to people who are in recovery to help them get back to work. And specifically what we’re doing is filling a void in the market for services covered by insurance that help you secure and maintain long-term employment. So that’s really the business model. There’s no insurance policy you can buy to help you rebuild your life in the aftermath of addiction. Health insurance will pay

they’ll pay to send you back to rehab if you relapse. Well, that’s not what you need. What you need is to stay sober. And that comes from stability in your life. So that’s what we’re doing. We offer services like job placement assistance. We have a mentoring program. We offer networking events for the recovery community and our allies. We’ll help people expunge certain convictions. We’ll help you get a driver’s license reinstated. We’ll even advocate for you with former employers around trying to get a reference on certain things you may have done well. And we’ll help you get to interviews. We’ll even help you get to work until your first paycheck.

All these things have to be needs based. You’ve got to demonstrate that. And we’ll help you get interview attire. We’ll help you get interview accessories like a work bag, you know. We’ll give you small grants for skills training. It’s really about helping the individual who’s met our eligibility requirements, who’s demonstrated they deserve a second chance and that they’re highly motivated to get that second chance and it’s all for free. And then we’ll even walk with you in that first year of employment to support you. Through coaching we offer.

We’ll offer you career counseling too, not counseling like a therapist would offer, but career counseling. It’s really what does this person need to do to reset the clock? And then that’s partly supported through selling training to businesses on the benefits of hiring people in recovery. And again, my background’s labor law. Now I have a team of 20 people now helping us, but we’re out there saying to employers, look, hiring people in recovery is good business. And we believe that recovery is a form of DEIB diversity, equity, inclusion, and belonging.

And we think the experience of recovery is so powerfully transformative that you come to the workplace with a set of soft skills and a perspective that helps bottom line. And then it’s a one-of-a-kind experience unlike any other, and that it’s a form of DEI, no differently than certain ethnic backgrounds, racial backgrounds, religious, LGBTQ, different backgrounds that are protected that way, that we see as diversity.

Whitney (04:05)
Absolutely. And that’s such a unique way to think about it because diversity, equity, inclusion is all about taking people who have been marginalized and making them feel safe and supported. And recovery, you know, a lot of DEI efforts are around things that are a little bit more visible, physically visible, right? Our race, our gender.

Even sometimes sexual orientation, just based off of stereotypes, people make assumptions based off of how you present yourself. Recovery though, isn’t something that is kind of one of the first things that someone sees about you, knows about you. And so it’s, you’re really having to, you know, live in silence and not be your true self. And I imagine that can be very difficult to have that kind of duplicate personality or in a way of

whenever I’m at work, I can’t be open. And what does that do for someone as they’re working on their recovery to have to kind of hide that?

Kevin (05:11)
Well, it certainly isn’t healthy for your mental health to have to hide a significant part of who you are, whatever that is. And for people in recovery, it is a big part of who we are. I mean, the experience of recovering from drug and alcohol addiction, and I would imagine from behavioral addictions too, like gambling, food, I’d imagine, but that’s not our frame of reference, but I would extrapolate it’s probably the same, is really powerful. I mean, you have to look at the demons that fuel the substance abuse. That’s what addiction really is at its core.

It’s an inability to manage your pain. You’re using a substance or a behavior, but for our purposes, a substance to mask pain. You have to figure out what that pain is. And then when you address it, you no longer need to use the substances. And I saw in my life, you know, without going into too much detail, I made a mistake as I stared down 40 because of insecurities I had. And I tried meth and I got addicted the first time. And from there forward, I was using methamphetamine to mask that pain. And of course that just created more pain because of the trauma that came from the addiction.

And having to come back from that has given me a strength. We’re strong people in recovery, but when you have to hide it, that’s not good for you. And you do hide it when you hear people say things like drunk, junkie, tweaker, whatever, pick your favorite epithet, you know, pill popper, whatever term someone wants to use. It’s all the same thing, okay? You know, you want to be able to be yourself and say, hey, I’m not going to go out to happy hour if everyone’s going to get drunk. Or sure, I’ll come to happy hour, but I want to be sure there’s some non-alcoholic options and the center show isn’t just getting drunk.

Imagine if you have a holiday party at work, who would want to have a holiday party I would hope that their Jewish or Muslim employees wouldn’t feel comfortable at? I’d hope most employers wouldn’t want to do that. Well, that’s what you’re doing when you have a party that your recovery community employees feel uncomfortable at if it’s all about getting drunk. And there are workplaces that have that culture. So it’s a big thing. It’s a big deal. When you’re in recovery, it’s a whole part of your identity.

Whitney (07:00)
And even, you know, one of the things I know that you mentioned that you focus on is that second chance, getting back into the workforce. So there’s, when you’re, you have employment, the social aspect of happy hours and things like that, holiday parties, even just people talking around the office, but also networking, getting opportunities… centers so much on.

hey, can I buy you a drink or having that kind of relationship. And so that can be an obstacle as well that for your own wellbeing, you can’t engage in these things that have been kind of solidified as pathways to career growth.

Kevin (07:46)
No, you’re absolutely correct. And it gets in the way sometimes. So I’d love to see a world where drinking didn’t have to be necessarily how people network. But it is. So the bottom line is we live in the world we live in. So at least create awareness around the fact, OK, if you’re going to go out, just understand you may have colleagues that don’t want to drink, or maybe stick to one drink. So it’s not, as I put it, the centerpiece of what you’re doing. There are great mocktails you can get out. Really, any drink can be a mocktail if you just take the liquor out of it.

Whitney (07:47)
And that, that’s.

Kevin (08:15)
So we want to get people thinking. We deal with a couple different things here. But yeah, that second chance is crucial. And we’re here to help our clients the whole way and recharge nothing.

Whitney (08:24)
I mean, that’s amazing. And there are certainly other, I think of like offices of vocational rehabilitation where they’ll maybe like do some resume building. It sounds though like what you’re doing at the Hyer Calling is different. I’m not familiar with anyone that takes it to the extent that you all do and really on a case by case basis knocks out those barriers. Is this, have you found anyone else doing

what you’re doing?

Kevin (08:55)
No, and I wish there almost at times were because there’s such a need right now, but we’re filling a void. There’s no one out there to the best of our knowledge that creates individualized reentry plans like we do with the depth and breadth of it, that does things like advocating with former employers, you know, expunging convictions, getting a driver’s license reinstated. Now our mentoring program will match you up with somebody in your profession or desired profession who’s in recovery or an ally. You know, I know there are nonprofits that will look at resumes.

that will do basic interview preparation. And we do that too, but we go into so much more. Everyone’s assigned a coach through the International Coach Federation. We create a plan to get you back to work. And then we’ll walk with you during that first year of employment. We’ll offer you internships with us if that’s what’s necessary to get you some work experience. The client internships, we’ll place you in an internship with another organization if that’s a better fit. We help you talk about what happened. For many of our clients, there’s always employment gaps by definition.

wouldn’t be here if there weren’t employment issues. There’s often justice involvement. How do you talk about that stuff? We get you to interviews if you can’t get to work. And we also even have another bucket that really just kind of is miscellaneous. What does this person need? Within reason to get a second chance. I know recently we approved $500 from Microsoft Office Training and we covered this person’s babysitting costs because they can’t go if they don’t have babysitting. So it’s like, we can’t send you back to college, but we will help you. We believe in the individual.

What do you need to get a second chance?

Whitney (10:23)
That’s amazing. I mean, covering babysitting, that’s something that there aren’t organizations that do that because it’s, you know, people get very tunnel vision of almost like a cookie cutter approach. You need X, but they don’t think about all the things underlying it. You know, babysitting. I know you mentioned attire. What to wear to an interview. I mean,

How do you have the attire if you don’t have the finances and you can’t get the finances if you don’t have the job? And so you’re really addressing those basic needs that underlie being able to be successful professionally.

Kevin (10:58)
We’ll even help you get birth documents. You know, recently we helped somebody get a social security card. You know, you can’t legally be employed without birth documents, you know. And for many people in addiction, they lose everything. They do. And I would have too. I’ve been, I was spiraling fast and I fortunately had some family that was able to catch me the end, but I mean, I overdosed on fentanyl and spent 10 days on dialysis after a drug overdose. I mean, I nearly killed myself in addiction. So I’ve seen it. I know what these folks go through and they want a second chance, but they don’t get a second chance because of all the barriers.

And then they give up sometimes. When they give up, they go back to use. And that can result in death or just more trauma in their lives, their children’s lives. We believe we’re breaking the generational cycle of addiction, that’s how we see it. Is that by stabilizing adults lives for the second chance at a career, we’re saving their life, yes. But we’re also stabilizing it. And when mom and dad and adults in a child’s life are stable, the trauma that children tend to bring into adulthood is minimized. I mean, we’re not gonna, you can’t stamp out addiction like smallpox, all right?

And we’re not, you can’t, but you can do a lot to put a dent in it by giving folks who demonstrate they deserve a second chance, a second chance. And that’s why we always say we work with highly motivated people in recovery. You know, you gotta put the hard work in, but if you will, we will try to meet you where you’re at to get you back to work.

Whitney (12:15)
Absolutely. And you’ve already mentioned the like resourcefulness and the strengths of individuals who’ve attained a place of recovery. And, you know, I think that’s something overlooked, but it is that because it wasn’t done in a manner or like in a field or in a job that someone can put on a resume, people overlook that. But what are some of the

strengths that you, when talking to businesses about individuals in recovery and the asset that they can be, what are some of the things that you highlight?

Kevin (12:53)
Sure. First and foremost, people in recovery are hardworking. Recovery by definition requires hard work. You have to look in the mirror at the things you’ve done. You have to make amends. You have to be real with yourself. You have to take responsibility. You did have a substance use issue, and it may well have hurt people in your life, but that’s why we make amends in recovery. So we’re strong people. We have self-awareness. We have humility. We have gratitude. We have perseverance. We have a natural desire to collaborate.

Recovery by definition is about community and connection, helping others as part of helping yourself, a service component. They’re soft skills, they are, and you have to otherwise be qualified for the position. But if you are otherwise qualified and you’ve had this, that gratitude for a second chance is probably the biggest piece of it. I look at myself and I was seriously addicted to crystal meth and I’m not proud of it, but I was. To be able to wake up each day with a good night’s sleep and not be…

held by the power of such a, such as pretty good with that powerful drug, but it’s all the same thing. You know, addiction is addiction. It has all the same outcomes, whether it’s alcohol, opiates or stimulants, or marijuana for some people. You know, it’s just such an appreciation for a second chance. And it pulls the power of addiction down to a manageable level with treatment. So, you know, it’s to win-win. The person gets a second chance, but the employer gets a great employee. You know, we make great employees. It really is DEI.

and we have plenty of success stories to show that. I think if the stigma were less, we’d have more people out and open about their recoveries, but because of the stigma.

Whitney (14:25)
Absolutely. I mean, I imagine workplaces have no awareness of how many people are likely in recovery at their organization and maybe because they didn’t have to check a certain box, maybe they didn’t have any criminal justice involvement as part of their addiction. And so they didn’t have to out themselves on a form. They are there in recovery or they have a loved one who’s been impacted. I mean, we know

substance use, mental health as well, but substance use is impacting everyone, if not directly, at least second degree. And so how can we, you know, I am an individual who is not in recovery from substance use, I am an ally. And when I’m working in somewhere or I’m talking to someone, what can allies do in the workplace to make it safer and to help

making a place for people to be successful professionally and in their recovery.

Kevin (15:24)
I love that. I love it. There’s quite a few things. I mean, one of the ideas that we’ve been trying to promote is the importance of employee resource groups around recovery. How cool would it be in the workplace if people could identify as allies to those in recovery from substance use disorder and really mental health issues generally. My understanding is there are not many organizations that have these formally. I think sometimes they may be quietly understood as groups of people that, you know, through colleagues, they know are supportive, but that’s not the same thing as a formal ERG, you know.

You can simply express it in conversations. You know, hey, if you hear somebody saying things, you know, using words or epithets that aren’t kind or aren’t being supportive, you know, or if you know someone shares it to say, hey, you know, I had a friend that was in recovery, or if you feel safe, share your recovery. You know, if you feel you can’t, if you can’t indulge, you know, but just let people know that, you know, you’ve been there, you have a child, a loved one, a parent, spouse, or yourself, you know. I think that would do a lot for people, you know, or plan an event that doesn’t make alcohol the focus of it.

You know, either make it alcohol free or if you’re gonna have alcohol, just don’t. It’s not, I mean, there are people that socially drink and that’s not illegal. Just don’t make it the center point of it. You know, have plenty of other options too. You know, those are ideas right there. You know, here’s the thing, if you’re an employer, imagine how cool it would be if you had job postings. It said, you know, women, people of color, LGBTQ plus individual, identified people, and people in recovery especially encouraged to apply. How cool would that be? Or if you went to rehabs.

Whitney (16:51)
Wow.

Kevin (16:52)
in outpatient treatment centers. And they all have alumni programs and said, hey, here are open positions we have. Doesn’t mean you have to hire any particular person. It just means that you’re saying you might bring something to the workplace. We’re really proud that Compass Group USA promotes open positions on our website. And clearly doesn’t mean they’re hiring any particular person. It’s not changing any policies or procedures. It’s just saying, hey, we get this, maybe a good source of talent. Because people in recovery, we do make good employees. We do.

We do, it’s a fact. We do, as a group, generally speaking.

Whitney (17:28)
Absolutely. And there’s nothing that would say otherwise, right? There’s no reason to believe that someone who’s in recovery wouldn’t be a good employee or a value, you know, an asset. And we, it

Kevin (17:39)
If they’re truly in recovery, if they’re in recovery, that’s the very honestly, are they in recovery? You know.

Whitney (17:47)
Right, right. And you know, I think I’m curious, when you’re training businesses, you’re talking about DEI efforts, belonging efforts, is there any discussion about not only hiring, but how to support someone so that they can sustain their recovery? Because I know a lot of people I’ve worked with professionally, a lot of people I know personally.

Work can be the stressor that leads to a return to use. So what role does an employer play in supporting long-term recovery?

Kevin (18:23)
Oh, many ways. First and foremost, make it easy enough to talk about it at work. Have a climate that isn’t hostile towards recovery. Have events that talk about this issue. Let people know if they’re struggling with substance use, there are resources available, say an EAP. If somebody is eligible for an FMLA, then they could go seek treatment or help a family member recover from their own addictions. Getting some little bit of law here. There’s Americans with Disabilities Act.

covers addiction recovery. Have a setting that lets people talk about it. Have HR do an event around it so that people understand that we are included, that we do bring a unique perspective because it’s a community no differently than any other marginalized communities. And we make such good employees, generally speaking, there are exceptions to everything, but if you’re otherwise qualified and you’re in recovery, our experience has been that you bring these qualities to the workplace and how can you talk about that?

Like I said, have somebody in leadership share that they’re in recovery. That would do so much. Imagine if there was a member of management, because of course there is, almost always is. You just don’t know it because of the stigma. And that’s where I say to people, look, I don’t expect someone to share their story if it’s not safe for them to do. But there are people that can safely share their own recovery or their spouse or loved one. You know, we have got to address addiction in America right now, because it’s never been worse because of the pandemic.

Whitney (19:33)
Yeah.

Kevin (19:50)
The stress and isolation led to such a surge in substance use. The fentanyl crisis is, it’s fentanyl is getting into everything. We’ve got to talk about this. And the first step is reducing the stigma so that those who have problems can get help. Because we know there are a lot of people with functional addiction in the workplace, you know, functional alcoholics, functional substance use disorder of all kinds, you know, and it only gets worse or typically only gets worse. So we’d rather help people get help before.

it spirals to the point of court involvement or major health problems, or they do lose their positions because the performance just got so bad.

it’s cheaper for the employer too, to salvage the employee rather than have to deal with the turnover.

Whitney (20:29)
And that, you know.

Absolutely, and just the, I mean, it’s the right thing to do first and foremost. And yes, it’s going to be beneficial to your company. And you know, not only making it, you know, something you can talk about, but ensure that policies aren’t going to, you know, exclude someone or harm them and normalize it. Just like, you know, if you have a physical health condition and you need to take time off to handle it.

Kevin (21:00)
Yeah.

Whitney (21:06)
And how are you presenting that, right? The language you use, the policies you develop, also what organizations do you support in the community? Because that is gonna demonstrate and indicate whether or not someone wants to work for you. And again, it doesn’t have to be that they’re impacted directly, that they’re in recovery, but you don’t wanna hear people talking negatively about someone in recovery when your loved one is. So there’s a lot that workplaces…

Kevin (21:31)
Exactly. That’s why I use it.

You don’t know the burdens they’re carrying. No, no, organically speaking, families are the other side of this disease, okay? And they’re the greatest victims of it. They have no control over it. There’s the stigma around it, and they get taken to hell and back with it. I mean, addiction’s a terrible disease. In my opinion, it’s the worst disease. I really sincerely mean that because of the stigma. The family suffers. It destroys families. It destroys lives. And then it becomes a generational cycle. And it’s already a genetically predisposed condition.

Whitney (21:36)
Please go ahead, I’m sorry.

Kevin (22:03)
You know, we were just very passionate at our foundation about attacking the stigma on us because it’s the first step in ending it. You know, good people can have addictions, we can recover. You know, I mean, I fell into a really serious methamphetamine addiction. I was shooting it at the end. I came back from it. We have people in our organization who have close to 30 years recovery from something as harsh as methamphetamine addiction. And it’s, you can recover. We need those stories out there to show people.

I mean, I have a lot of respect for the 12 step model, but that’s also done anonymously. We need some faces and voices out there that show you can recover from serious addiction. We make good employees. Now, that view that you can’t ever come back from is just inaccurate. And when you’re in the workplace using, like I said, terms or just general disparaging people with addiction, you’re hurting someone who’s already in pain from their child or loved one’s addiction. We gotta address addiction in America.

Whitney (22:59)
Absolutely. And ..

Kevin (23:00)
and the Hyer Calling Foundation’s proud to take the lead in doing it.

Whitney (23:07)
And we’ve already touched on, you were doing something very unique and not, I imagine, on a lot of people’s radars yet. It should be. It absolutely should be because we’re losing lives. From a pure business perspective, you’re losing money because of turnover, because people don’t want to work for you. There’s a huge workforce that probably is disengaging from certain companies because

opinions on recovery and policies and such. And so it has to be on the radar because, as you said, addiction’s not going anywhere. So how do we make it so that people are safe and that those who are in recovery can be successful? Not just good employees, successful, progress, be the leaders. Because they’re there. They just aren’t visible yet.

Kevin (24:01)
Well, you come back and get better versions of ourselves. That’s the other point. When I do public speaking on our story, I’ll say part of the story of the Hyer Calling Foundation, I say is that if you lean in carefully and honestly, which I did around my story, you can come out of even the worst situations better off than before. And that’s not unique to me. That’s true of all of us in recovery. When you come out of addiction, you do recover, but you’re also a better version of yourself. Your good qualities become amplified.

And they always say, in any program of recovery you’re in, if you make a mistake, promptly admit it. Own it, look in the mirror, take stock every day. When your head hits the pillow at night, what did I do right today? If you made a mistake, move forward with it. There’s so much people in recovery can bring to the workplace, and there’s so many people that need to enter recovery. What’s hardest for me is when people come to our foundation because they’re in crisis. They’ve lost a job, they have health issues that came from addiction.

the court involvement, which is always the hardest to bring them back from, which is why we support expungement. Let these folks get help before it reaches the point that they lose a position, because we know statistically that depending on the statutes, we would say half of the people with addiction are employed to say various degrees, and it only gets worse in those cases. So let’s help them feel comfortable saying to their employer, I think I need help, rather than waiting until they get arrested, overdose, or get managed out because the performance falls so bad.

Whitney (25:15)
Great.

Kevin (25:27)
It’s when it helps everybody. It saves money for the employer and it helps their family.

Whitney (25:31)
I mean, it helps everyone all around. It’s just, it’s an aspect of recovery that I don’t, personally, I don’t think gets enough attention and is so essential for that long-term recovery success. Now with businesses, I mean, you’re doing trainings for them, you are helping place people in recovery-friendly workplaces for internships, jobs, et cetera. Are there any other ways that…

Kevin (25:34)
communities.

Whitney (25:59)
Organi… businesses, corporations can support the Hyer Calling Foundation’s work?

Kevin (26:06)
Sure, absolutely. I mean, we are a 501c3. We are primarily supported through businesses. We need businesses to endorse the idea that people in recovery make great employees. We do have one corporate sponsor right now, Petroleum Marketing Group out of Falls Church, Virginia, which we’re very appreciative of, but we’re looking to bring on more. You know, we need support. This is very expensive to operate. You know, we’ve been blessed that the first few years were funded, but to move forward, we do need help. And in varying degrees of help, it doesn’t have to be all that much money,

organizations to get behind this to say, you know what, people in recovery do make good employees. We have people in recovery working here and they’re great, you know, and have people share their stories, you know, and if you’re not in a position to even donate financially, at least would you like to source positions on our website, you know. We’re trying to get organizations involved in this. If you have somebody in your leadership team who’s willing to tell their story on LinkedIn, that would be an amazing tool. Anything right now to help normalize the idea that addiction is a disease, it can be recovered from, it’s not a character issue.

and you can get on with your life because you can. This is absolutely a treatable illness. It is, but you’ve got to seek treatment for it. It’s as treatable as it is heartbreaking. That might be a way to look at it. It’s as treatable as it is heartbreaking. It’s very treatable and it’s very painful.

Whitney (27:24)
Yeah, wow, that is a very powerful statement. I’m just kind of sitting with that. It is, and yeah. So there’s a lot that you’re doing through the Hyer Calling Foundation for the individual to make workplaces more friendly. I mean, you’re really leading the effort in this space, and hopefully companies are seeing that this isn’t going away, they can’t ignore it, and they should jump on board.

Kevin (27:30)
It is absolutely treatable. Yeah.

Whitney (27:53)
with you, alongside you, and not only benefit from the immense talent of individuals in recovery, but also change the narrative and address the stigma so that we save lives, save professions, save families, save communities.

Kevin (28:11)
I’ll close with one thought on something. So we’ve, I’m just going to share it to employers out there. We have did a campaign in the summer of 22 that the Associated Press in Bloomberg picked up where we challenged employers across America to train their staff on the use of naloxone as a form of social responsibility. So I’ve been on NBC with this and different NPR, different media. We’re out there saying, look, train your staff on how to use Narcan. You know, it doesn’t take all that much time. It’s a way of giving back to your community.

And it was, that was a real hit when we did that two years ago, a year and a half.

Whitney (28:45)
I think that’s amazing. You don’t have to be an individual who use substances to save a life. It can be anyone, anywhere. So I love that idea and hopefully more people will start doing that. So if someone wants to connect with you, Kevin, or support the Hyer Calling Foundation, how do they contact you? How do they get updates? Where should we direct them?

Kevin (29:10)
Absolutely, go to our website, HyerCalling, H-Y-E-R-C-A-L-L-I-N-G.org. Admin@hyercalling.org is our email. There’s a way to donate there if you’re inclined. I’ll even get my personal email, or direct business emails, Kevin.Hyer@hyercalling.org One of our team will get back to you. We’ve got a team of 20 volunteers and consultants that we’re doing some good stuff, and we’re happy to help as much as we can.

Whitney (29:36)
Absolutely.

Kevin (29:37)
We do have eligibility requirements, but we’re in the business of trying to help people. So we’re not looking to turn people away. And when we do, it’s more not right now rather than no. We’re trying to help people. It’s always not right now, it’s never no. So I’m happy to see what we can do to help and I appreciate your time, Whitney.

Whitney (29:57)
I can’t thank you enough. I’m so excited for people to hear more about the higher calling and hopefully, it just continues to grow because you’re providing a service that is so desperately needed and is truly going to change lives. So thank you so much, Kevin. It was wonderful speaking with you.

Kevin (30:10)
Yes, we believe it.

Thank you. You’re welcome.